An interview with the two to eleven percent of American Catholics who have been responding "I've never heard of Pope Francis" to Pew Research for eleven years
“Peace? Peace. I hate the word, as I hate hell, all Montagues, and thee!”
Pew Research has just published their most recent update to their ongoing survey of American Catholics, their attitudes on Catholic teaching, and their views of Pope Francis; this most recent update was fielded in February and reached about 12,700 respondents. One of the questions that has been asked fourteen times throughout Francis’ papacy is “Is your overall opinion of Pope Francis very favorable, mostly favorable, mostly UNfavorable, or very unfavorable?” Some portion of the respondents, ranging from two percent in 2017 to eleven percent in the most recent survey - the highest this number has been in the Francis papacy - have always chosen the response “I have never heard of this person”. To understand this point of view better, I reached out to one of the panelists for a brief conversation about his views on Catholicism, and how it feels to live in a church run by a man that you have never heard of after eleven full years.
What would you say your life is like as a Catholic?
Very confusing!
And, to be clear, this isn't just your not having an opinion of Pope Francis, given that the questionnaire instructions read “[INTERVIEWERS: PROBE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN “NEVER HEARD OF” AND “CAN’T RATE.”]” You're saying you've literally never heard of Pope Francis?
Even right now, I'm not a hundred percent clear on who we're talking about.
Given that “Francis our Pope” is explicitly named in the Eucharistic prayer and thus named at the altar in every single Mass around the world, how do you respond to hearing that name on Sundays?
I start screaming uncontrollably. I've been asked to leave Mass many times.
I just find it so difficult to understand how you could have never heard of the man, given that he's been an influential world leader for over a decade. He was Time Magazine's Person of the Year, same as, say, Volodymyr Zelenskyy or Taylor Swift.
Who are those people? Were they also the Pope at some point?
Do you know that Pope Francis visited the United States in 2015? He gave an address to Congress. When he said Mass in Philadelphia, one million people attended. Jim Gaffigan did a standup routine to introduce him.
I love Jim Gaffigan! Have you heard his skit about cake? I just learned that they are called “skits”.
What is your day job?
I am a senior civilian official at the Department of Homeland Security.
Can you name anyone who has served as Secretary of Homeland Security since the creation of the department in 2003?
[long pause] I think you’re trying to trick me so I’m going to say…Pope Francis.
I think part of what throws me here is that there can be very polarized and strong feelings about Pope Francis among American Catholics. There is even a small but vocal faction of the American church that rejects his legitimacy as the Pope.
I remember seeing a documentary about this - this was that huge controversy that erupted into that gang war in California back in the 1990s, right? I remember, there was that hitman who wore a vest with the Blessed Virgin Mary on it. Just an indelible image of how dark and polarized a time that was for the church.
That was John Leguizamo in the Baz Luhrmann adaptation of William Shakespeare’s Romeo + Juliet.
Are you sure that wasn’t a documentary about the Catholic church?
When people use “Is the Pope Catholic?” as a figure of speech to mean “yes” or “of course”, how do you normally respond?
I say “well, we have to assume so, even though we may never know who he is!”
Have you seen the HBO miniseries The Young Pope starring Jude Law?
I find that the quality of Paolo Sorrentino’s work dropped precipitously, in my estimation, after Il Divo. Once he started working in English, he directed Sean Penn, he’s trying to put Jennifer Lawrence in a gangster movie, it just all is starting to be a little too much. Back when he was more directly trying to emulate Fellini, he wasn’t always successful with that, but those big swings are what resulted in his most interesting work. The Young Pope just felt like very well-tread ground both cinematically and politically, and Jude Law’s accent was weird.
How do you get your news about the Catholic church?
Every day that I’m not struck by lightning, I assume that God is happy and things are going to work themselves out.
That seems stupid, but I suppose you do sound like a happier Catholic than I am.
It’s hard not to be a happy Catholic - nothing beats sitting in the pews on Sunday mornings belting out “We Are Called” as the closing hymn!
So you didn’t hear about David Haas, then.
Who was he? Is he the Pope now?